Interview: Looking Forward with Larry Landless - 12/10/2003
by Ron Merrill

Larry The Landlord Landless had refereed several hundred professional mixed martial arts bouts before making a questionable call that, in the minds of critics, would seemingly nullify all of his past excellence. After numerous public apologies to both the fighter involved as well as the fans, the humble referee is left to learn from his mistakes and plan for the future. In this exclusive interview with InsideFighting, Larry puts the past behind him and discusses his mixed martial arts fight debut as well as where he sees himself down the road.

InsideFighting: You recently made your debut in the cage [against Paul Castelloni] after having been the third man in the cage for how long?
Larry Landless: [laughs] Forever. Ive refereed over 400-500 fights now. I dont know the exact number but its definitely in the 500s.

IF: What got you started in refereeing mixed martial arts matches?
LL: Well we actually sponsored the first Pancrase open-hand fight, if you will, in the San Gabriel area. We were like the first guys to do it and people were coming to our shows and they started getting the idea I dont know, thinking it was okay to do, which it wasnt but they did it.

IF: When you say we who are you referring to?
LL: Myself, myself really and these guys that I trained with - worked out with. We hosted our own shows. In fact, Titos [Tito Ortiz] first fight was in our show.

IF: As a referee who has seen as many fights as youve seen, are you in there able to gauge which way the fight is going to go early on? Are you seeing things that are so familiar to you that you know who is going to win? What must that be like?
LL: Umm? Theres always going to be surprises. I mean, things come up. Theres no way youre going to say that youve seen it all or that youve done it all. I mean, its human nature just to go through what we go through and try and figure things out and remember things as you go along. But youre just trying to relax and go with the flow and enforce the rules and make calls. Dont be afraid to make your calls.

IF: What is your background like as far as training in Martial Arts or otherwise?
LL: Ive tried everything at one time or another. Ive experienced a little Taekwondo, Ive experienced a little Jeetkundo, but mostly my background is wrestling, Judo, traditional Jiu-Jitsu and things of that nature.

IF: At what point recently did you decide that you were tired of being the 3rd man and you wanted to be one of the two combatants?
LL: [laughs] Ive actually wanted to do it for the longest time but I didnt, so Ive never gone out and looked for referee jobs, people have always called me and looked me up and asked me to come do their shows. I always thought that I got too involved in that aspect and I never took the time for myself to just focus on training and to just do my thing and invest the time I needed to invest to do this. I mean, I invested a lot of time but at the same time, my training wasnt where I wanted it to be a lot of distractions, especially recently. Just a lot of distractions. Physically I was 100%. I felt good. I felt better than Ive felt in a long time. I was relaxed, butyou know. Next fight Im going to be a different person.

IF: So would you say that youve actually been trying to get in there as one of the fighters for some time now but you just havent been able to?
LL: Well, yeah. Like I said, its the investment and the time that you have to put in. A lot of guys just, you know, decide to do this over a two-week period. Im not one of those people. You have to invest 6-8 weeks. To me, thats the way I think. You know, anyone that just steps in I like to be at my best. And even though I wasnt at my best, at least I put the time in.

IF: Are guys like Randy Couture, who are of similar age, inspirations to you?
LL: Absolutely. Well even the younger guys are inspirations. I think Tito is awesome, you know? The age wasnt the issue. Of course, Randy winning was like, hey, theres a guy just a couple months older than me out there doing it. Of course he was world class before he got to where hes at. I mean, Id have a world of catching up to do.

IF: How far do you want to go as a fighter?
LL: I really dont know. Im kind of taking it one day at a time. I do feel fairly confident that I will fight again, hopefully around March. Im going to start training for that in January. Ill see where that goes, where that takes me, how I feel and all that. You know, there are a lot of variables. And then, after that, you know Im going to take it one fight at a time. Kind of reevaluate myself and be fair to myself and say, Hey, you know. At this point Im definitely a B-Level fighter. Im not UFC world class material.

IF: Larry, youre fighting in one of the promotions that youve refereed in. Does that create a conflict of interests for you, or at least perceivably so in the minds of the fans?
LL: No. It shouldnt. I mean, each fight is individually reffed on its merits. I went in there, I fought and its over. You know? Theres no conflict as to hard feelings. You know? Were all professionals. If he would have been part of a big team and there would have been a big rivalry over the decision or whatever, Iyou know? Im a professional. I would have to think as far as if I had to ref another one of the guys bouts or what have you.

IF: Lets say that you go a little ways with this fight thing and you get to the point whereI dont knowmaybe youre vying for some sort of a title. Be it King of the Cage or another promotion. Youre called in and you have to ref a fight that could affect who your future opponent is. Therein
LL: I dont think, number one, that Id ever be put in that position. Because I really dont see myself being put into a position for a title fight. Cuz I just dont think that Id, at 39, realistically be anywhere near pursuing a goal like that. I definitely, you know its up to the fighters who wins the fight. If somebody goes in there and knocks somebody out with just, BAM, you know. Theres very little I can do as a ref to determine the outcome of that. I know that if I was a top level contender and refereeing top level fights, it would probably be a problem. But, no. Where Im at and where Im planning on going, Im not taking it serious. Im not taking it as a this is something that Im kind of doing just for myself, for fun.

IF: Now that youre fighting, youre subject to the trash talk and people calling you out. Have you experienced any of that yet?
LL: [laughs] Ah? Yeah.

IF: Have you?
LL: Yes I have.

IF: Would you care to go into specifics?
LL: You know what? Half of it doesnt pan out. You know - people on the Internet. I dont know who they are. They have weird little computer names. I dont know who these people are. [laughs] Its kind of thats not my style. Thats not my thing. Im not one that has to answer a challenge because somebody said something.

IF: For as prevalent as that may be, I know that youve got an abundance of fans on message boards though. Now I was actually, specifically referring to fighters calling you out in either the press or in interviews.
LL: You mean like fighters wanting to fight me?

IF: Yes.
LL: You know what? No. Actually no. I havent had a fighter a legitimate fighter call me out and want to fight me. You know, Im just not on their level. 90% of them know it. We all knowthey really dont have much to gain from fighting a guy like me. If theyre anywhere near contention level then they need to fight people that are the same ability level or better if they want to get recognized. If a guy like Pedro Rizzo wants to fight me and knock me out, its really not going to help his career. He would have to fight people that are on a top contender level.

IF: Speaking of fighting. In your best shape, had you had the chance to really get into the best shape possible without the distractions, which weight would you fight at?
LL: [laughs] You know what? I am walking around at about between 240 and 250 [pounds].

IF: Is that why you wore the shirt? [laughs]
LL: No, I took the shirt off for the fight

IF: Oh did you?
LL: Yeah, I was showing a little pudge. I aint gonna lie. [laughter] I took it off and I put it back on right after the fight. But noI think my body frame and the type of person that I am would probably be best suited to get down to 205. But 45 lbs is a lot to lose between now and March and at my age its a little harder. Ive got a new trainer at Evolution Fitness. His name is Clark. I got with him kind of late. He put me on the diet real late. I only had three weeks to experience it. If I get a full chance to experience it for several weeks like he plans on doing for me he really feels confident in making the kind of changes in my body that I know that I would like.

IF: Larry, having been in the cage as many times as you have, was there a different feeling getting in there as a fighter?
LL: Yeah. I aint gonna lie. I was real nervous. A lot of people had put a lot of undo pressure on me mostly fans and a couple reporters I guess. It was almost like a if you dont win, you can never show your face type of attitude. I didnt see it that way. Win, lose or draw, Im still the same person. Im still a professional. I can still handle it. My ego is not that weak to where Id never be able to show my face again. But a lot of people were just, this is so important! Youve got to win! They made such a big thing out of my fight that it seemed like it was bigger than the Dean Lister vs. Jeremy Horn fight.

IF: Youve been around the sport long enough that I think you could share some pretty good insight on this next question. What does MMA need to finally gain a little mainstream respect?
LL: [laughs] You know what? They gotta go out and get those celebrities now. I mean, face recognition is important. Therere a lot of celebrities that really enjoy it. And they gotta be personally invited to even the smaller events that are nearby. I mean, obviously Michael Clark Duncan showed up at one of the events, Shaquille ONeal. We just gotta figure out a way to get those people in. They want to be treated like stars, so send them limos. Bring them down. Give them free tickets. Comp em. Let them feel like theyre special and theyll be there. The more face recognition we get; it will kind of expand the sport. I think we need to start to look into other avenues of advertisement. The Hispanic community is the highest Pay-Per-View community in the United States, yet its really not catered towards bringing them in. They have Spanish radio for the UFC. I forget the name of the station but Erika Montoya is one of the announcers for it. But where are the posters? How come there are no posters that are in pure Spanish - UFC or King Of the Cage posters out in those neighborhoods or in those magazines?

IF: Tell me whats next for you. What can your fans expect to see from you?
LL: Well, I plan on reffing. I have every intention of coming back and leading-off where I started from and just being a bigger and better person from it and being focused on my job. There are things that I have to make an adjustment for so that certain things wont come up again. I mean, its a constantly evolving, learning experience. And I expect to come back and referee. I also expect to probably starting in January, to start training for my next fight, which may be in March but I have not decided yet where, when or who. Im gonna call the shots for myself. If I dont feel like doing it, Im not gonna do it. If I dont enjoy it, Im done. One fight and Im done. I need to really enjoy myself and there were a lot of distractions this round.

IF: Have you got any messages for your fans?
LL: Yeah. The people that have been supporting me, I want to thank them. Some people have just, like, sent me private emails and gone out of their way to wish me the best. You know, Im a human being and I have feelings. So I wanna just my heart goes out to them. Thank you! I just want to thank the people that support me.

IF: Well on behalf of InsideFighting.com, Id like to thank you for consenting to this interview with me.
LL: Oh, I had a great time. Thank you for having me.

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