MMA Ironman #3: Dan Severn - Part 2 - 12/17/2003
by Michael DiSanto

Continued from (Part 1)

IF: Needless to say, youre a busy guy.
DS: These past couple months Ive been contacted by the military. I think somewhere down the road Ill definitely be doing something with law enforcement. I will always stay a busy person. Thats the way I like things. Ive had people print out my monthly schedule and have been told its humanly impossible. Ive been wrestling so long people tell me they knew my father and Im his son. When it comes to the world of amateur wrestling, Im teaching my third generation wrestler now.

IF: So youve been a wrestling mainstay much longer than some may expect?
DS: When I had stepped into the UFC world, I was already a world-class, accomplished athlete. Theres that mindset an athlete has to have. I can take almost any athlete who has accomplished something in another field and know that theyll probably do well in yet a different field because they have that drive, that determination. I can teach you a lot of techniques but I cannot teach you heart or desire, you neither have it or you dont.

IF: I was interested to hear your perspective on how MMA has changed since you first entered.
DS: Well its been a huge evolution, in the beginning there were a lot of one-dimensional athletes. I throw myself in that category I was just a wrestler. By the time I was told I was even in it, I only trained for five days because of other commitments I had going on. Even my training camp was somewhat of a (pauses) I dont want to say a joke because the guys there were doing well by me. I was training over at [WWE wrestler] Al Snows school in Lima, Ohio. I said, Gee I have to get inside of a ring, so I said, Al, do you mind if I come over there? So literally I went over there and trained with Al and a couple of other professional wrestling protégés. They had a pair of old boxing gloves, the name of the game was Punch Dan, well Dan doesnt like to be punched so I kept moving around, Id stay out of harms way either clinch, throw em down, and that was it. I never trained to strike another human being I never practiced on a pressure point. When I walked into my very first UFC I went out there as a pure wrestler and it kind of shows because in my first few matches I didnt strike anybody.

IF: So youd be a ground-and-pounder.
DS: (laughs) Ive been given the title of Father of Ground-and Pound. I dont know if thats a good title to have, a lot of people look at it as a barbaric technique. I defend it, I say, It may be barbaric in nature, but it is most effective. If Im in your guard, and I slam a hammer fist in the middle of your head Ive got your attention. When Im cocking it back up again you will put up a blocking mechanism and thats all I want in the first place. Now I can spin off and go into whatever loose neck submission or key lock or choke or crank, but if you dont put up that blocking mechanism Im going to hammer it right to home again so youre damned if you do, youre damned if you dont.

IF: And thats why you were so effective.
DS: I make more money following behind jiu-jitsu guys because everyone teaches the guard, the guard, the guard. I can go into a martial arts school and say what is the greatest position you can possibly think of down on the ground? and they almost all say, the guard. I say, lets start in the greatest position you know of and by the time were done, youre going to think why in the world would anyone ever want to be in the guard? It used to boggle my mind when Id watch people jump up and pull you into the guard. Ive had people do that to me in my matches and Im like, Thank you very much, youll never see the light of day again until I cut you loose.

IF: Id like to talk about your match with Royce Gracie, what were your impressions of those matches?
DS: Submissions and strikes werent in my repertoire but at that same token it was several minutes into the match when I did strike Royce, and even then I actually had to think about it. I was struggling against my conscience. I was going against 26 years worth of rules and regulations. I really had to think about it even then when I did strike, I struck peripherally, not directly based.

IF: Okay, talking about striking, your fight with Butterbean, it seems like an interesting topic. Id like to hear what happened.
DS: (laughs) Oh you and me both. It was more of a spectacle than it was anything else. Whoever Butterbean was supposed to originally go against either got hurt, or backed out. I dont know what the story was all I know was a promoter called me, and says, Would you box Butterbean? I laughed, and said I dont possess those kinds of skills but if you throw a cage up Id fight him in a mixed martial arts match. And he started to laugh, I said, call him and ask. Basically he did call Butterbean, who said, Heck no, I dont want to do that kind of a match and it got to that point where he wanted to see how he could put this together. I just told the guy, I dont possess boxing capabilities. Every athlete has to overcome some type of adaptations or obstacles that have been in their path, and I have. I really dont want to divulge a lot of them because Im still an active competitor. So that match did get put together. It was viewed as an exhibition match with an exhibition (wink-wink) type of scenario. Butterbean was trying to take my head off. His conditioning was not very good at all. I think he was exhausted the first minute, minute and a half mark. I gave up basically 100 lbs to him, and at one point almost shoved him right out of the ring. I actually held him in and when he came back in and started to push up against me it was like well, push into me, its time to take a ride on a lateral drop. I was just doing some different things. Im pretty good about avoiding being struck for the most part.

IF: I hate to say it because he was a little guy, but you remind me of an old boxer, Willie Pep. The man won a round once without throwing a punch.
DS: In a lot of ways, you said I remind you of an old boxer. Almost anyone who sees me, they almost unanimously say Im something from days gone by. I was probably born in the wrong time period. They say, man you should have been wrestling with the likes of Lou Thesz, Frank Gotch, and to me thats a compliment.

IF: Oh totally, they were great wrestlers. Going back to MMA a little bit, what would you say your proudest accomplishment is?
DS: My proudest accomplishment? I dont know what to say about that one. Theres different aspects of accomplishment, Theres accomplishment in terms of being competitive still at an older age. Theres being the only Triple Crown champion in UFC history. Theres accomplishment in being in the very first Ultimate Ultimate. Thats a two-hour block of time and with the three opponents I faced that night I represented 50% of the show. Theres accomplishment of being one of the biggest live gates in Detroits Cobo Arena. I dont keep up to snuff with all thats taking place. It wasnt until several months back that I watched my first UFC tape.

IF: Thats interesting. Was it one of your tapes?
DS: No, I was paid to do an appearance at a sports bar the same night as the UFC. So it was kind of like they brought me in, I hung up some belts, signed autographs did my thing before the show. I watched the first match or two. I hate to say it; I got kind of bored with the show.

IF: How would you rate the state of the UFC today as compared to when you were fighting in it?
DS: Well, I dont really follow the fight game. I entered it to test my skills because I was intrigued when I watched the first few. Actually it was a friend of mine who watched the first two, showed them to me and said, You gotta think about doing this. I was boggled. I didnt possess punching and kicking. They were stomping people down on the mat. Im thinking, Man this is pretty barbaric. The way it was touted - no time periods, no weight classes, no gloves, no mercy, no-holds-barred. I looked at it and he said, Look at this one little guy form Brazil, he was pointing to Royce Gracie, looks like what hes doing is wrestling. I said, it looks close enough to wrestling to me.

IF: The UFC is talking to Spike TV about a deal. In your opinion, what will it take for the MMA to gain the mainstream acceptance that it enjoys in Japan?
DS: I dont know. I mean, with all the reality programs that are on television now, I dont know why its no there. Maybe there are things you and I will never know about. What deals are being cut, what other people are trying to present things, but to me it should have been on television a number of years ago. Art Dore was the creator of Toughman. I met with Art Dore half a dozen years ago when reality programs were just coming on board and said, You have the contacts and the ins to put this product on there. He wasnt interested at the time.

IF: Right, well six years ago the UFC was on the outs.
DS: I call it the Dark Period of the UFC where it was banned. You had Senator John McCain (R-Arizona) and a number of his affiliates, the cable industry and again there are a lot of things well never know about of what really happened during that time period. Its kind of mind boggling, a lot of other things you can watch on television that I find offensive and yet I cant watch a reality program. So to me its like youre going to invade my prime time television when my family is sitting here and Ive got to watch whatever scenario. Sexual content, sexuality and the whole nine yards, I cant watch something thats real competition? That boggles my mind. As an adult, you should make the decisions whether this is something youre going to watch or not.

IF: In Ken Shamrocks book, he was writing about
DS: (laughs) Ive got to laugh at that, I didnt know hed even written a book until one of my guys had dropped it off and told me to read it and I think I read it in one night or something like that. Could it not have been called the Ken Shamrock/Dan Severn story? I read the book, it starts out in Detroit, Cobo arena, blah, blah, blah. Throughout the whole book, all kinds of insinuations with me, the whole nine yards, I thought, Geez oh Pete! You know, when I go to write my book you might get an honorable mention it just kind of boggles my mind, I mean dude, who are you to talk about me in any shape or form right now?

IF: Well it was a good rivalry.
DS: Oh yeah, you need different storylines and stuff like that. Thats one of the successes the Japanese have over American companies. Go ahead, Im sorry I didnt mean to interrupt you.

IF: Oh well I was saying, in the book he talked a lot about the rule controversy at UFC 9: Motor City Madness, where you guys were apparently prohibited to do a lot of things because of the rules, and a lot of people thought it to be a dull fight because of that.
DS: Oh sure, I mean realistically, everybody was told the same set of rules of what you were allowed and not allowed to do. It came down to a court ruling that day. The very first match you had Cal Worsham and I forget who he went against. John McCarthy came in he said if you did things you would be warned and stuff like that. I watched the first match and you werent even allowed to do head butts. In the first match, Cal Worsham did like six head butts right in a row and all I heard was WARNING!

IF: So the rules werent being enforced?
DS: It was form a court ruling that came down that day. Did I know all the stipulations? Yeah I was told what was not allowed, and then I watched the first couple matches to see what was happening and to me its like well, I did what I had to do during that match. It lacked a great deal of activity; you can fast forward through that whole darn match and boil it down to about one minute of actual action. They did see a couple things change the complexity of the mixed martial arts world. There was that one point in time where I was under Ken shamrock for how long? Five, maybe six minutes, but how effective was Ken on top? He had a mount on me, and most people thought the mount was the most devastating position you could possibly be in. Kens a strong guy and hes also a skilled fighter, yet I nullified that aspect.

IF: How would you say you did that in that fight?
DS: (laughs) Youre just picking out my strategy. I like to think of myself as one of the more intelligent competitors. I have to be at my age. I look at this competition as a human chess match. Its a human chess match where checkmate hurts. I had a chance to study many of Kens matches, and Ken really does not go on the offensive. Hes a great counter fighter. I thought, If I fear his tactics right now, the crowd will dislike this match. I got more than I bargained for. They were chanting Red Wings, Bullshit, they were chanting Boring. There was one point when they were throwing garbage into the Octagon. Even John McCarthy stopped the match at one point and was cussing at us, pushing us back to restart the match and saying we came here to fight, blank, blank blank, get to fighting and I think he was getting pressured from people outside the Octagon. It was a live pay-per-view. And to me it was like Hey. Im sticking to my game plan. I dont like the time implications being in place. So many athletes right now are just playing to the time. When the UFC had no time limits, the average match lasted 2:22. From a companies perspective you can only buy so much time. So I guess, what about a time delay pay-per-view. You do it with your live audience, youve got your truck and all that there, why not turn this live event, delayed by maybe two hours. But Im not the genius behind this company.

IF: Okay, talk to me about your own company, DangerZone, what made you want to start it?
DS: Well the original reason for it is because I didnt care for the direction of the other fight companies. Point blank I think theres a lot of corruption in the world of boxing first off, but I dont think this type of competition was ever set up on a level playing field in the first place (laughs) but Ill go into that at another time.

IF: Thank you very much for your time.
DS: You're welcome. Thank you.

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